Can anyone explain this to me? in S.o.S.H. Archives, #11 Forum

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Can anyone explain this to me?

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FelixMantilla

Can anyone explain this to me?

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Posts: 5056

May 11 02 12:47 PM

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Tom Verducci Mailbag

Quote:
I just read your column on the solid pitching in the NL. It was interesting, but why didn't you mention the DH as a reason for more runs being scored in the AL? Perhaps the NL is finally re-asserting itself as "classic" or "real" baseball. I've noticed a real dropoff in my ability to watch AL games. I'd rather watch paint dry or leaves fall.
--Lucas Rubin, New York

I agree that baseball without the DH is much better. But the NL is still is scoring runs at a higher rate than the AL did in the 1980s. Virtually everyone I talk with who has played in both leagues (with the exception of broken-down guys who can't field a position) says the NL is a better brand of baseball.

Where do these people come from? "Classic" or "real' baseball? WTF? For the life of me I can't understand why anyone would prefer the NL to the AL. The questioner prefers to watch paint dry rather than watch Edgar Martinez bat? Verducci thinks that baseball is better without the DH, but doesn't even try to say "why" he feels that way. Oh yeah, players who have played in both leagues think the NL is better baseball.

Let's look at old pitchers who were reputed to be good hitters.

I remember Earl Wilson as a good hitting pitcher. Lifetime BA: .195; OBP: .265; SLG: .369.
Earl Wilson career stats
I remember Gary Peters as a good hitting pitcher. Lifetime BA: .222; OBP: .253; SLG: .348.
Gary Peters career stats
I remember Sonny Siebert as a good hitting pitcher. Lifetime BA: .173; OBP: .204; SLG: .270.
Sonny Siebert career stats

Now let's take a peek at today's "stars" hitting pitchers.

Greg Maddux is supposed to be a good hitting pitcher. Lifetime BA: .179 OBP: .202; SLG: .215.
Greg Maddux career stats
Tom Glavine is supposed to be a good hitting pitcher. Lifetime BA: .192; OBP: .246; SLG: .220.
Tom Glavine career stats
John Smoltz is supposed to be a good hitting pitcher. Lifetime BA: .173; OBP: .248; SLG: .223.
John Smoltz career stats

Clearly the best hitting pitchers don't even match up to the most putrid positional players in the big leagues.

Oh, I get it. It must be watching Don Baylor, Bob Boone and Buddy Bell (or whomever is now managing the Rockies) strategize must make it more fun to watch. What the hell planet are these guys on? Can anyone explain it to me?

"They have one of the most competent and fairest local newspaper corps covering them..."

Platooned With Chico Walker

Re: Can anyone explain this to me?

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Posts: 994

May 11 02 12:53 PM

Quote:
Oh, I get it. It must be watching Don Baylor, Bob Boone and Buddy Bell (or whomever is now managing the Rockies) strategize must make it more fun to watch.

Don't forget Jimi!

"Some species are solitary, some gregarious; most roost in the open in trees, though some inhabit caves, rocks, or buildings ... the smallest species in the family, the long-tongued fruit bats, reach a head and body length of about 2.5 inches and a wingspan of about 10 inches."

Rough Carrigan

Re: Can anyone explain this to me?

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Posts: 8950

May 11 02 1:37 PM

I think there used to be a much more pronounced difference between the leagues due to the parks but that that difference is going away. By having more pitcher's parks, the NL was bound to play a more aggressive, fast paced game rather than a sit around and wait for the bomb game.

However, the NL has added Coors field and BoB in Arizona, both pronounced hitter's parks. The extreme pitcher's park Astrodome was replaced with Accounting Fraud Field, a great hitter's park. County Stadium in Milwaukee, a definite pitcher's park (run index of 95 in '99 and '00) was replaced with Miller Park which played like a slight hitter's park last year (run index 103). I'm not sure what changes were made beyond getting rid of the turf, but a park that was a clear pitcher's park before is now moderately hitter friendly. Three Rivers in Pittsburgh played almost dead even its last 3 years. PNC played as a slight hitter's park its first year, though cutting down homers a bit. The only counterbalance on the other side is that Pro Player in Fla is a pitcher's park and Candlestick was replaced by PacBell, a more pitcher friendly park. That's 5 changes in favor of the hitters, 2 in favor of the pitchers. Small ball will wither a bit in the NL, too.

I also think the AL suffered under the legacy of terrible umpires afraid to call a strike. The NL's boobs in blue were often guys like Eric Gregg calling stuff way outside strikes. The AL had dopes like Brinkman and McClelland who never met a pitch they liked. The umps are associated with only one league now but a lot of AL pitchers spent their formative years trying to find a pitch that these jerks would call a strike.

If the AL made all its hitters stay in the damn batter's box and didn't grant jerks like Bernie Williams time just so he can f*** with the pitcher's timing, they could shave 10 minutes off the game and greatly improve the rhythm and pace of the game.

Pumpsie

Re: Can anyone explain this to me?

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Posts: 5994

May 11 02 2:43 PM

the Ann Coulter of SoSH

How anyone can prefer watching pitchers bat to Edgar Martinez and Frank Thomas bat is WAY beyone me. I just don't get it.

The relative strength of the two leagues comes and goes in cycles. Just because the NL teams have drafted and developed players better over the last 5-6 years and are reaping the fruit of that now with more topnotch younger star players, is no reason to declare that the "older, classic" baseball is better. One thing is independent of the other.

Verducci's ability to reason has been demonstrated to be on the sub-moronic level by people like Rob Neyer in the recent past. Neyer was right.

"If the world were perfect, it wouldn't be." Yogi Berra

Big Guapo Style

Re: Can anyone explain this to me?

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Posts: 2044

May 11 02 3:01 PM

longtime member

One thing I have discovered is usually when this DH/no DH, AL/NL debate comes up, one side just CAN'T POSSIBLY see the other side of things.

My thinking is, if you're too f***ing fat to field a position, then sit down and be a pinch hitter or leave the game. In my opinion, it adds an interesting twist to have that pitcher's spot every 9 ABs. I like pinch hitting and I like double switches. AND, I like sacrifice bunts. And most of all, I like pitching. And if pitchers batting means a higher likelihood of an out, than I like that too.

-----------------------------------------------
The artist formerly known as Pokeys Cornrows.

Butch Hobsons elbo chips

Re: Can anyone explain this to me?

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Posts: 5735

May 11 02 4:25 PM

Interesting discussion and great info from everybody.
Enjoyed reading all these posts here so far.

I agree with Big Guapo that neither side ever sees the other sides point, BUT I guess that is what leads me to believe that the status quo is OK. I have no problems with each League operating under the present situation.
Being a Red Sox fan makes me used to seeing the DH and I enjoyed many of the one-dimensional players who have continue to excel at Hitting a Baseball when other skills withered.
It doesn't bother me that the NL lets the pitcher bat as it brings a different flavor to the game but I agree that the vast majority of pitchers cannot handle a bat in competent manner.

I don't want to see more stone gloves in the field or more banjo hitters in the line-ups. One of those two things has to occur overall in MLB if you change the status quo. There is still a finite number of all-around players and that won't change very quickly.

Pumpsie

Re: Can anyone explain this to me?

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Posts: 5994

May 12 02 9:00 AM

the Ann Coulter of SoSH

Baseball is a better game WITH the DH. It increases BOTH the quality of the hitting and the quality of the defense.

If you're for less quality, hey, go for it.

"If the world were perfect, it wouldn't be." Yogi Berra

DieHard3

Re: Can anyone explain this to me?

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Posts: 11341

May 12 02 9:32 AM

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
If you're for less quality, hey, go for it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Bingo, Pumpsie! I'm amazed that in all the discussions about how Football has become more popular than Baseball, noone ever mentions the Offensive-Defensive platoon system. People want to see EXCELLENCE! Making Pedro Martinez hit makes as much sense as forcing Tom Brady to play nose tackle, Warren Sapp to play halfback, or Ty Law to play left guard.

I'd be all in favor of baseball going to a similar two platoon system. Let's watch Pedro Pitch, Rey Sanchez play second base, and Manny Ramirez hit; I don't want to see Sanchez or Pedro swing a bat, nor do I particularly enjoy watching Manny Ramirez play the outfield.

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Can anyone explain this to me?

Can anyone explain this to me?